Roman Metal Stuff

[helwen]

Looking at brooches and belt parts at: http://www.quietpress.com/Roman_Brooches_and_Belt_Fi.html

I'm leaning toward the dragonesque brooches for the stola, even though they're actually Celtic finds I think (northern England, 50-150 AD)....

Then there are all the belt bits. I think L is supposed to have a belt with his tunic, so one with metal findings seems like the way to go. But there are so many choices... nothing ridiculously wide though. It's for dinner-time, he doesn't need a kidney belt. And what are those belt rings for? Holding points for a knife or sword scabbard? No, those are further up the page.... One can easily spend $100 on the metal bits for a belt... must be careful of that...

Comments

SWEET!

[bytchearse.livejournal.com]

They still sell the Mongol belt stuff! They say those htings are "stiffeners" but I think they are used for hanging stuff from the belt.
I dunno fmo Roman, but the Mongol belts had one or two attachment points for a pouch, firesteel ,etc. Swords and large weapons weren't worn except on campaign.

Re: SWEET!

[helwen.livejournal.com]

Hm, I could see have an attachment for a pouch, etc. We'll see what we end up doing. As a baron, gwynt_y_storm thinks L could probably go with a tie belt with a Herakles knot. RQP has lots of cool stuff :)

Re: SWEET!

[druidharper.livejournal.com]

He certainly could. The Balteus is unique to the Legions historically speaking. He's a fighter so he could take the stance he's portraying a general or something, but then that lot usually wore the Herakles Knot anyway. Since this is adin-din evolution the heavy Balteus might be rather expensive and uncomfortable for a one time deal.

Trade with Britain was intense long before Caesar made his first foray there, and 100 years and more before Claudius sent the invasions of 43 CE. Civilians loved Celtic Cloaks..as they made the best wool going. They loved the jewelry.

Fortunately, for Runnymede folks are playing people playing at being Romans so pretty much anything goes.

RQP does have lots of nifty stuff. It's where I got the studded bronze ring for the loculus; he's the only one who has them. The plates for my Centurion's Balteus too. ;) And the Norse stuff on my Apprentice's Belt.

(OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Yes, they are celtic, but they are pretty.

As for the belts, I'm not so good with boy stuff. Ask lucianus or sasha_khan- they know their stuff.

(the quick and dirty roman guide has a deadline of Sunday, and will include stola pictures. Life got away from me, like it often does)

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT) - hook, line, and sinker!

[helwen.livejournal.com]

Yay! Okay, I think I will go for them then... I have this tendency to like things from the northern part of England for some reason.

Looking forward to Sunday -- I know how life gets away from one, for sure. Thanks!

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[mizpagan.livejournal.com]

Will you be at Acorns and Pearls? Need to talk to you about dressing the Princess.

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Yes I will. I'll be on the equestrian field most of the day, but I'll be there.

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[mizpagan.livejournal.com]

I'll look for you, Rufinia. Sorry use your lj for this helwen...

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[helwen.livejournal.com]

S'okay, can't have a naked queen running around... well, not in the time periods she's looking at anyway...

Re: (OH HEY LOOK IT IS RUFINIA BAIT)

[mizpagan.livejournal.com]

LOL

[druidharper.livejournal.com]

The belts with the plates and aprons, called the Balteus, are the mark of Legionaries; it was a mark of great shame to be forced to remove it and stand in public; one of the disciplinary actions for errant legionaries. Civilians apparently did not wear the Balteus. Just some background info there.

Centurions had no aprons on their Balteus, so far as we know, just the troops.

I have the bronze concentric ring versions from RQP, along with the frogs and buckle..they are cast of course, not stamped like the originals, and so quite heavy. Use good stiff leather to attach them if you go this route. Being bronze they are quite expensive.

The round discs are use in pairs; they are frogs and they are used to hold the Pugio, or dagger, in place. We haven't any evidence they were used for the Gladius...it appears that was done with crossed leather straps in back as mine is done, or hung from a baldric.

The concentric circle plates are 2" wide. Some of the more slender ones are about 1" maybe 1.5", they were used more commonly with paired belts.

Lyle, being Baron, can go with a leather or fabric belt that is tied in a square not with the ends tucked into the belts...the Herakles Knot here> http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica/parts.htm#herakles.

[helwen.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link! Otherwise, I was leaning toward the " Another later Roman belt set from a "Rekonstruktion d. Gurtels v. Tenes (Heurgon)" " set -- the animals on the buckle look like two pelicans, facing away from each other.

[fitzw.livejournal.com]

I like that set -- I'd like to see how the stiffners are supposed to be applied to the belt.

[fitzw.livejournal.com]

You can wear the sash belt tied with the Herakles Knot over a regular tunic? All of the illustrations show it worn over the officer's lorica.

[druidharper.livejournal.com]

We don't know in fact, is the short answer. It started out as a formal sort of wear we think, but later became associated with rank, at which point we see it on the statues and always on 'officers', and nearly always *over* all other decorations.

Only Legionaries wore the Balteus, both with and without armor. So much so that soldiers were readily identified by the wearing of them...and severe punishments could be meted out to people who did and oughtn't.

Only officers wore the Herakles Knot so far as we know, or maybe civilians of equivalent stature.

The later Roman Belts tend to be 3 - 4" wide..more akin to a kidney belt than the balteus really, which is why the stiffeners..to prevent the belts from folding over. These belts often had hooks or rings attached to them.

Depending on how late you go that is.

As I say though, people are Medieval folk playing at being Romans so aren't constrained by the actualities of Roman dress; it's the interpretation of Roman dress from a later time period being done, as I understand it. As a result you don't have to worry much about particulars.

Someone like myself or Titus Lupus, who reenact Roman Legionaries have to concern ourselves with accuracy, and that carries over to things Scadian in this respect. Thank all that is for the massive resource library I have! Lifesaver!

[magpiemss.livejournal.com]

I looooove Raymond's Quite Press. and I think you can get away with the Dragon Broaches, the Romans did make it to England.

[helwen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, kind of what I was thinking... and of course some of the Celtic goods made it to Rome, not just slaves/prisoners.